$22 NLHE FTOPS Mini #20, awkward spot w 8-8 in BB

[Poker Orifice]

FTOPS Mini #20 Awkward stack size with 8-8 on BB, EP limp, MP raises 4x… ???

This was a hand I had in the Ftops Mini #20 that I felt was an awkward spot for a couple of reasons, one being stack size as I’m not deep enough to be getting implied odds to set mine and too deep to just come over the top with a shove (3-betting here would be nearly half my stack and a smaller 3-bet would be over a third of my stack so why not just shove). Also we are on the BigBlind and will be playing the hand out of position if we just ‘call’ and will likely be in a 3-way pot (see below.. ‘read’ on Player 1’s previous play).

A lot of the play at this point has been uncontested preflop raises & more so raises folding to 3-bets or calling & shoving or betting flop (depending upon stack size involved). My image has been very tight and last showdown I had 3-bet in LP w AA, calling a 4-bet shove and having AA hold over QQ.
For this hand though, ‘Player 2’ has just sat down on my table 3 hands prior and has no read onthe table playing but jumped right in aggressively as this is the 2nd hand of 3 he’s played now (also, I’ve seen him play in the past and know he’s a LAG-tard 30/17/3 with poor results ie. 260-mtt’s ROI -51% avg.buyin $11).
Player 1 is a weak player (plays Pass/Agg) and is capable of limping in with big hands. They’ve been limping a lot (they seem to limp their entire range.. AA > 7-6s from any position 23/4/2.2).
Player 1 has Limp/Call preflop many times but is very transparent post-flop.
They also have poor results with 379-mtt’s, ROI -54%, avg.buyin $5.

There are some good players on the table also (ie. ‘4everunknown’… a reg. in larger buyins and ranked quite high). Names of players in the hand have been blocked to protect their anonymity.

Hero has - 13.8 M, 30bb’s
Approx. 1500 players left, with around 1,000 getting paid.


Full Tilt Poker Game #12237363348: MiniFTOPS Event #20 (84243736), Table 546 - 170/340 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:32:36 ET - 2009/05/15
Seat 1: 4everunkown (17,820)
Seat 2: dchendes (16,376)
Seat 3: bukithepro (4,690)
Seat 4: Hero (10,213)
Seat 5: Sharkinapond (8,932)
Seat 6: Teki1986 (4,030)
Seat 7: terribleone000 (20,239)
Seat 8: Player-1 (18,900)
Seat 9: Player-2 (25,046)
4everunkown antes 25
dchendes antes 25
bukithepro antes 25
Hero antes 25
Sharkinapond antes 25
Teki1986 antes 25
terribleone000 antes 25
Player-1 antes 25
Player-2 antes 25
bukithepro posts the small blind of 170
Hero posts the big blind of 340
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [8d 8h]
Sharkinapond folds
Teki1986 has 15 seconds left to act
Teki1986 folds
terribleone000 folds
Player-1 calls 340
Player 2 raises to 1,360
4everunkown folds
dchendes folds
bukithepro folds
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero has requested TIME

….????...... what do we do?

Conservatively, with the facts you have lined out, I do not see very many positives and way too many negatives. If you call and player 1 calls you are probably behind or at best a coinflip since you said player1 limps with big hands. You hope he folds. So if you call and correctly predict player1 folds then, unless you spike an 8, you are still on shaky ground. If you have to check to player2 he is likely to c-bet with any two cards the way you have described his play, so you will have no idea of where you are at and the likely hood is there will be overcards on the board since you just have a mid pair. Out of posistion, against a bigger stack, big raise, and you said you do not want to shove here, so I fold to the big stack/big raise and look for a better spot to put it out there. Good post and Im interested in how it turns out and how some others would play it and why. Let some others reply before giving us the result - mine is the conservative play - lets hear the more aggresive rationale.